This is a perfect litmus test for redemptive ideas: can your worldview conceptualize men and women ennobling themselves through chastity? If yes (a minority) you’re probably alright. If no (most folks) you’ve been a bit degraded by the cloying and corrosive atmosphere of modern consumer culture.
True. The main argument men use against Chastity is that "women prefer a man with experience". That's just not the truth. It depends on the category of woman. A virtuous woman appreciates chastity because it signals higher virtues. Just like what a virtuous man appreciates or looks for in a woman is different from what a degenerate man does. Same goes for women.
I wouldn’t mind staying chaste if it was beneficial for men. For a man, sleeping with women doesn’t just provide sexual pleasure but also, and more importantly, essential experience that makes a man more attractive in the eyes of women.
Also, deep down a woman wants a man to be experienced. I wouldn’t prefer it, but the reality imo is that not having any sexual experience by the age of marriage makes a man unattractive to women. In women’s psyche a man who is desired by other women commands more attraction, and having slept with women is perceived as a proof of that.
I would love to hear honest opinions from women as to which of the two men you’d marry if all you knew was that one of them was a virgin and another had sexual experience.
Not really. That's a mistaken generalization brought about by red pill culture. It depends on the category of woman. A virtuous woman appreciates chastity because it signals higher virtues (self-restraint, purity, selflessness).
To understand this point, think about it this way: a virtuous man looks for different traits in a woman than a degenerate man. Same goes for women. It's just not possible to put everyone in the same basket.
There is some truth to what you say. I'll admit that: women prefer a man that is seen as attractive by other women, but having a high body count is not the way to showcase that attractiveness. You can get the same result by simply being respected by men, which will in turn make you more attractive to women. You can very clearly be attractive to women without having to sleep with a bunch of them.
There is zero need to be promiscuous in order to prove to a potential partner that you are attractive. In fact, most women you come across won't have a clue how many women you've slept with, because that is not what they are judging you on (and it's not something that is visible)
They are judging you based on your virtue, and on how other people interact with you: are men respecting you? are women showing attraction to you? You can have both of those without having to destroy your purity, pair bonding ability, and contribute to the degeneracy of modernity. Aka, you can have that while remaining chaste.
I agree with you in that if I had to choose between the two worlds I would chose the one you paint. I'll also admit to have been influenced by the red pill community, so my perspective may be tainted.
In the end, the best yardstick for truth is what your experience tells you and what works for you. If you are living in a place where being chaste as a man works for you then that's the right way for you—but keep an open mind lest you need to adapt. That'd be my advice.
I get you brother. However, you should know that I have adapted already. I wasn’t always chaste. I’ve been with a number of women. Precisely because I know how much it damages you is that I advocate for chastity. My adaptation was to choose chastity.
I decided to become the man that a virtuous woman would want, and only after doing that did I start coming across women that would be good wives.
This is not a coincidence. You attract what you are. If you keep sleeping around, that’s the kind of woman you’ll attract and the kind of world you are shaping around you.
As you become a man of virtue, you attract women of virtue. It’s not about the place. There’s degeneracy and virtue everywhere.
I honestly believe that the woman you want to marry is a woman who loves you for what you are and not one who selects you based on your sexual experience.
Partners in a couple grow together. One, while being in a marriage could grow along with his spouse even in this field.
Plus, I personally prefer to follow my Lord's way, trusting that His ways are the best for me and my future spouse.
Hi, I realize I’m responding several months after you posted this. I became a real Christian (as opposed to just a kid going to church with my parents) when I was about 15 or 16, and that put me on a straight and narrow that I wouldn’t have been on otherwise. When I was younger and not active in my faith, I believed that both men and women needed high body counts in order to attract a spouse because lots of sex would prove that they were attractive, and that would make other people want them. I also thought lots of sex would make a person good at sex, which would attract a spouse. But my dad told me that it’s not true. He said sex is instinctual and you don’t need practice to do it. I also grew up and met many attractive virgin men and women who got married.
Being a celibate woman in a secular world has been a real challenge with dating and finding likeminded men to marry who I enjoy being with, who won’t throw me away for not having sex with them, and just generally following God in a culture that rewards rebellion. I would absolutely prefer to marry a man who is chaste because it communicates to me that he takes his faith seriously, is a good leader for my home, would set a good example for my children, and has the self control to be trusted to cherish me faithfully.
I don’t think sexual activity before marriage is essential for making a man attractive. When your mind is renewed by living out your faith in relationship with God, the fruits of the Spirit become way more attractive to a woman than any amount of sexual experience. Self-control, patience, faithfulness, goodness, love, kindness—all of these are essential seeds of chastity and the fruit of chastity. If a man has these things, I am way more attracted to him for marriage than a man who is having lots of sex and demonstrating none of these character qualities that make for a good husband.
In terms of which of the two men I would marry—virgin or experienced—it depends on the overall package of the man. If they are both mature followers of Jesus, physically attractive, professionally responsible, fun to be around, enjoyable to talk to, emotionally available, and I have chemistry with both and they both are very interested in me, I would prefer the virgin or whichever man had less sexual experience. But if it’s a competition between an angry virgin male who hates women and has no spiritual maturity or professional growth and who doesn’t bathe and plays video games all day while living in his mom’s basement versus a sexually experienced man who is an all-around great human who is attractive and follows God, I would choose the man who was a good human who happened to be sexually experienced. Virginity is a great gift to give someone, and it is preferable and I feel like people try to downplay this a lot, both inside and outside of the church. But the other thing that is equally true is virginity does not make a man (or a woman). Virginity should be just the cherry on top of a good cake. If I have two men and one only has the virginity cherry and the other has the whole cake with no virginity, I’m taking the sexually experienced man. (Not because of the experience but in spite of it. Because I would love HIM as a person, not his past.)
The real problem inside and outside the church is that purity and wholeness is not often a holistic pursuit. The entire person needs to be a good match. A healthy man will be chaste, whether he is a virgin or not. If his chastity extended back for years to the point that he never lost his virginity in the first place, I would feel like a very blessed woman. But the most important thing is that he has godly values and is living a good life, and no matter where a person is in terms of sexual experience, choosing to follow God from this day forward is always the best decision, for themselves, for their spouse, for their children, and for the world around them. And that’s the most attractive thing.
I went celibate for a year and it changed my life.
It’s incredible how much it benefits you
This is a perfect litmus test for redemptive ideas: can your worldview conceptualize men and women ennobling themselves through chastity? If yes (a minority) you’re probably alright. If no (most folks) you’ve been a bit degraded by the cloying and corrosive atmosphere of modern consumer culture.
True. The main argument men use against Chastity is that "women prefer a man with experience". That's just not the truth. It depends on the category of woman. A virtuous woman appreciates chastity because it signals higher virtues. Just like what a virtuous man appreciates or looks for in a woman is different from what a degenerate man does. Same goes for women.
The link https://www.theunpluggednetwork.com/simpleman doesn't work.
I appreciate this post but I beg to differ.
I wouldn’t mind staying chaste if it was beneficial for men. For a man, sleeping with women doesn’t just provide sexual pleasure but also, and more importantly, essential experience that makes a man more attractive in the eyes of women.
Also, deep down a woman wants a man to be experienced. I wouldn’t prefer it, but the reality imo is that not having any sexual experience by the age of marriage makes a man unattractive to women. In women’s psyche a man who is desired by other women commands more attraction, and having slept with women is perceived as a proof of that.
I would love to hear honest opinions from women as to which of the two men you’d marry if all you knew was that one of them was a virgin and another had sexual experience.
Not really. That's a mistaken generalization brought about by red pill culture. It depends on the category of woman. A virtuous woman appreciates chastity because it signals higher virtues (self-restraint, purity, selflessness).
To understand this point, think about it this way: a virtuous man looks for different traits in a woman than a degenerate man. Same goes for women. It's just not possible to put everyone in the same basket.
There is some truth to what you say. I'll admit that: women prefer a man that is seen as attractive by other women, but having a high body count is not the way to showcase that attractiveness. You can get the same result by simply being respected by men, which will in turn make you more attractive to women. You can very clearly be attractive to women without having to sleep with a bunch of them.
There is zero need to be promiscuous in order to prove to a potential partner that you are attractive. In fact, most women you come across won't have a clue how many women you've slept with, because that is not what they are judging you on (and it's not something that is visible)
They are judging you based on your virtue, and on how other people interact with you: are men respecting you? are women showing attraction to you? You can have both of those without having to destroy your purity, pair bonding ability, and contribute to the degeneracy of modernity. Aka, you can have that while remaining chaste.
Interested to know what you think of that
I agree with you in that if I had to choose between the two worlds I would chose the one you paint. I'll also admit to have been influenced by the red pill community, so my perspective may be tainted.
In the end, the best yardstick for truth is what your experience tells you and what works for you. If you are living in a place where being chaste as a man works for you then that's the right way for you—but keep an open mind lest you need to adapt. That'd be my advice.
I get you brother. However, you should know that I have adapted already. I wasn’t always chaste. I’ve been with a number of women. Precisely because I know how much it damages you is that I advocate for chastity. My adaptation was to choose chastity.
I decided to become the man that a virtuous woman would want, and only after doing that did I start coming across women that would be good wives.
This is not a coincidence. You attract what you are. If you keep sleeping around, that’s the kind of woman you’ll attract and the kind of world you are shaping around you.
As you become a man of virtue, you attract women of virtue. It’s not about the place. There’s degeneracy and virtue everywhere.
I honestly believe that the woman you want to marry is a woman who loves you for what you are and not one who selects you based on your sexual experience.
Partners in a couple grow together. One, while being in a marriage could grow along with his spouse even in this field.
Plus, I personally prefer to follow my Lord's way, trusting that His ways are the best for me and my future spouse.
Pax et bonum 🤝
Agreed. In my opinion, this primarily applies to young people raised with Christian community values, which is a gift.
Hi, I realize I’m responding several months after you posted this. I became a real Christian (as opposed to just a kid going to church with my parents) when I was about 15 or 16, and that put me on a straight and narrow that I wouldn’t have been on otherwise. When I was younger and not active in my faith, I believed that both men and women needed high body counts in order to attract a spouse because lots of sex would prove that they were attractive, and that would make other people want them. I also thought lots of sex would make a person good at sex, which would attract a spouse. But my dad told me that it’s not true. He said sex is instinctual and you don’t need practice to do it. I also grew up and met many attractive virgin men and women who got married.
Being a celibate woman in a secular world has been a real challenge with dating and finding likeminded men to marry who I enjoy being with, who won’t throw me away for not having sex with them, and just generally following God in a culture that rewards rebellion. I would absolutely prefer to marry a man who is chaste because it communicates to me that he takes his faith seriously, is a good leader for my home, would set a good example for my children, and has the self control to be trusted to cherish me faithfully.
I don’t think sexual activity before marriage is essential for making a man attractive. When your mind is renewed by living out your faith in relationship with God, the fruits of the Spirit become way more attractive to a woman than any amount of sexual experience. Self-control, patience, faithfulness, goodness, love, kindness—all of these are essential seeds of chastity and the fruit of chastity. If a man has these things, I am way more attracted to him for marriage than a man who is having lots of sex and demonstrating none of these character qualities that make for a good husband.
In terms of which of the two men I would marry—virgin or experienced—it depends on the overall package of the man. If they are both mature followers of Jesus, physically attractive, professionally responsible, fun to be around, enjoyable to talk to, emotionally available, and I have chemistry with both and they both are very interested in me, I would prefer the virgin or whichever man had less sexual experience. But if it’s a competition between an angry virgin male who hates women and has no spiritual maturity or professional growth and who doesn’t bathe and plays video games all day while living in his mom’s basement versus a sexually experienced man who is an all-around great human who is attractive and follows God, I would choose the man who was a good human who happened to be sexually experienced. Virginity is a great gift to give someone, and it is preferable and I feel like people try to downplay this a lot, both inside and outside of the church. But the other thing that is equally true is virginity does not make a man (or a woman). Virginity should be just the cherry on top of a good cake. If I have two men and one only has the virginity cherry and the other has the whole cake with no virginity, I’m taking the sexually experienced man. (Not because of the experience but in spite of it. Because I would love HIM as a person, not his past.)
The real problem inside and outside the church is that purity and wholeness is not often a holistic pursuit. The entire person needs to be a good match. A healthy man will be chaste, whether he is a virgin or not. If his chastity extended back for years to the point that he never lost his virginity in the first place, I would feel like a very blessed woman. But the most important thing is that he has godly values and is living a good life, and no matter where a person is in terms of sexual experience, choosing to follow God from this day forward is always the best decision, for themselves, for their spouse, for their children, and for the world around them. And that’s the most attractive thing.